Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Suzanne on November 13, 2010 at 5:45pm

Hi John (Mot)
I am sorry for your loss and even though you have sadness I wanted to let you know I feel relief when someone understands the way you and others do. I wish I could say something that would help but we are all going through this. You have stated exactly what I have been thinking. Maybe some people can move on and have closure and I think that's great but those words are just not in my realm of thought. Moving on? Closure? It's all Greek to me, no offense to anyone, I hope. It's just a different language in a far-off distance. This also haunts me, John. Danny, a memory? It seems unfathomable. Not in my dictionary. Can't do it. Won't do it. As far as I am concerned I have the belief that Danny is in that place you spoke of, where amazing, wonderful things take place. I want to go there, but I know I must wait for God to call me. But I do believe that he is no longer in pain. Someone told me that our loved ones are not dead, they are just different. I have to rely on what others tell me and decide to believe this because I know all of this intellectually but I don't 'feel' his presence. Maybe there's a reason for this. In any case, once again, I am so sorry for your loss, John. I'll remember you in my prayers.
God bless,
Suzanne



John Mot said:

Suzanne,
I know what you mean about not wanting your husband to become a memory. I lost my wife under similar circumstances 6 months ago and the thought of her fading away haunts me. Everyone says that you have to keep living and move on. I think about her always. If I move on, it will have to mean pushing her to the back of my mind where I just don't think about her much. I won't do this. Does moving on even exist? Or are they just empty words? Do you believe your husband is in heaven? Has he moved on to amazing, wonderful things that we can't even fathom? There is no death... only different stages of life and death is the doorway to eternity. God Bless you!

Permalink Reply by John M on November 13, 2010 at 6:17pm

Suzanne,
Thank you so much. You and Danny are in my prayers as well. I am so sorry for your loss, I understand the despair of seeing a very close loved one suffer with cancer. I agree with you about "knowing intellectually" but not "feeling" their presence. I have struggled with that. I just don't feel her. I wonder if it's God's way of increasing our faith. I don't know.
God Bless you.
John

Permalink Reply by Barbara Roth on November 13, 2010 at 8:24pm

Hi John and Suzanne, my husband fought so hard to stay with us, but in the end, cancer won. I too know the despair of seeing your loved one going through so much. It got to the point where it hurt too much to even look at Jim.Yet he kept telling me " just another bump in the road ". I believe he is in heaven, that he is pain-free, and happy. I will always love him,miss him,and respect him. He fought so hard, kept apologizing for getting sick ( like it was his fault ). All this from a man who used to whine like a baby when he had a simple cold. We all had loving marriages,we were the lucky ones to have someone care so much about us. It's a shame that we didn't have more time. take care.

Permalink Reply by Jerry on November 13, 2010 at 8:50pm

Here is something I found on another grief website, it seems to be saying something along the lines of this thread.
Let me quote for you the wise words of a chinese zen master who lived in the 9th century;

"If you look for truth OUTSIDE yourself, it gets farther and farther away.
Today, walking alone, I met him everywhere I step.
Only when you UNDERSTAND it this way will you merge with the way
things are" (my emphasis)
Tung-shan.

Our whole concept of life is forever being directed outward, whether that focus be on our loved ones, our possessions, our future, yet it takes the 'death' of a loved one that provides us with the perfect opportunity to seek within.
The truth is, that everything and everyone APPEARS to be separate from us, the reality is that we are ALL ONE, now what exactly does that mean? does it mean that we are all one in thoughts? clearly, not! Does it mean that we are all one in deed? obviously not!
Does it mean that we are all one physically? most definately no!
The only reality is LOVE, it is love that unites us with our loved ones, it is not the physical union that is love, the physical union is a SYMBOL of that love, we have mistaken the SYMBOLS to be the real deal, so when that symbolic form has been removed we yearn for it because we haven't recognised the reality of that loved ones essence and that essence is YOUR essence, we are ALL SPIRIT, that is our essence and that is where we are ONE, we have embarked on a human experience, an experience of separateness, so the irony is, that when we are inhabiting the physical form we are separate from one another, it is only upon the release of the spirit within that we are united totally again, you experience the "missing" because YOU are still experiencing the human/physical level of being, your goal is to TRANSCEND that experience.
We mistakenly believe that we must wait until our own death before we can experience union with them again, that is only true if you continue to believe you have been separated from them, "YOU ARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE" the ironic reality is that you are CLOSER to them NOW than you have ever been, but your conditioning prevents you from recognising them. I can honestly say that I can feel my mothers presence throughout my entire being, it is this experience that transcends the limited physical level of being, although im aware of her within me, I still have the human experience to complete, so in a sense i have a foot in both worlds.
Once you recognise your true being and realise what and who you are, you will understand what that zen master meant when he said "............you MERGE with the way things are"
In other words, our loved ones have already MERGED with us, they are taking every step you take, they are feeling every emotion you feel, they are WITHIN you, your goal is to merge with them, while you sit there and read these words they are infusing your entire being, your love for each other is and will always be eternally present.
Close you eyes, put a hand on each arm, caress yourself and know you are hugging and being hugged by the very person you think has been taken away from you, take a deep breath and feel their very essence merging with yours.

The reason you are not allowed to get used to the physical form is because you must transcend it, if the process that we call 'death' does not occur, then we become complacent and relax in it, as Ive pointed out before, if a force did not take over at the moment of an infants birth and cast it out, that child would stay exactly where it is, feeling secure, protected and nourished and then what do you think would be the outcome for the mother as well as the baby?
Life is TRANSFORMATION, its a process, it does not come to an end, its constantly evolving beyond its present form, if obstruction occurs, stagnation is born, your physical form as well as your loved ones form is the womb of the spirit which is intended for higher realms and those realms are within you not "up there".
Their very passing is your kick start into spiritual motion.

Permalink Reply by Jerry on November 13, 2010 at 8:50pm

Here is something I found on anither grief website, it seems to be saying something along the lines of this thread.
Let me quote for you the wise words of a chinese zen master who lived in the 9th century;

"If you look for truth OUTSIDE yourself, it gets farther and farther away.
Today, walking alone, I met him everywhere I step.
Only when you UNDERSTAND it this way will you merge with the way
things are" (my emphasis)
Tung-shan.

Our whole concept of life is forever being directed outward, whether that focus be on our loved ones, our possessions, our future, yet it takes the 'death' of a loved one that provides us with the perfect opportunity to seek within.
The truth is, that everything and everyone APPEARS to be separate from us, the reality is that we are ALL ONE, now what exactly does that mean? does it mean that we are all one in thoughts? clearly, not! Does it mean that we are all one in deed? obviously not!
Does it mean that we are all one physically? most definately no!
The only reality is LOVE, it is love that unites us with our loved ones, it is not the physical union that is love, the physical union is a SYMBOL of that love, we have mistaken the SYMBOLS to be the real deal, so when that symbolic form has been removed we yearn for it because we haven't recognised the reality of that loved ones essence and that essence is YOUR essence, we are ALL SPIRIT, that is our essence and that is where we are ONE, we have embarked on a human experience, an experience of separateness, so the irony is, that when we are inhabiting the physical form we are separate from one another, it is only upon the release of the spirit within that we are united totally again, you experience the "missing" because YOU are still experiencing the human/physical level of being, your goal is to TRANSCEND that experience.
We mistakenly believe that we must wait until our own death before we can experience union with them again, that is only true if you continue to believe you have been separated from them, "YOU ARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE" the ironic reality is that you are CLOSER to them NOW than you have ever been, but your conditioning prevents you from recognising them. I can honestly say that I can feel my mothers presence throughout my entire being, it is this experience that transcends the limited physical level of being, although im aware of her within me, I still have the human experience to complete, so in a sense i have a foot in both worlds.
Once you recognise your true being and realise what and who you are, you will understand what that zen master meant when he said "............you MERGE with the way things are"
In other words, our loved ones have already MERGED with us, they are taking every step you take, they are feeling every emotion you feel, they are WITHIN you, your goal is to merge with them, while you sit there and read these words they are infusing your entire being, your love for each other is and will always be eternally present.
Close you eyes, put a hand on each arm, caress yourself and know you are hugging and being hugged by the very person you think has been taken away from you, take a deep breath and feel their very essence merging with yours.

The reason you are not allowed to get used to the physical form is because you must transcend it, if the process that we call 'death' does not occur, then we become complacent and relax in it, as Ive pointed out before, if a force did not take over at the moment of an infants birth and cast it out, that child would stay exactly where it is, feeling secure, protected and nourished and then what do you think would be the outcome for the mother as well as the baby?
Life is TRANSFORMATION, its a process, it does not come to an end, its constantly evolving beyond its present form, if obstruction occurs, stagnation is born, your physical form as well as your loved ones form is the womb of the spirit which is intended for higher realms and those realms are within you not "up there".
Their very passing is your kick start into spiritual motion.

Permalink Reply by Kathy King Kates on November 13, 2010 at 8:57pm

Suzanne, know that everyone of us has had and continues to have our "debbie downer" days, some last a little longer than others but they do come no matter what we try to do to thwart them. We want you to feel welcome to say whatever you need to here. If you've checked on other members posts, you will see that we are all in different stages of our "process". It is never ending. We vent, we cry, we scream and holler, we do lots of stuff. Know that its okay. Sorry you have to be part of this "group". None of us chose to be where we are. Know that even tho you feel left with stuff, you did have last moments that one day you will treasure. It wasn't a waste of time if you had just one more moment with your dear one. I can't believe my dear Bill is gone either but I can only be consoled that he is out of the pain. I want him with me every day, but I want the fun loving, happy go lucky, lets hop on a jet and go somewhere guy, not the one wasting away in pain suffering daily because of the pain he saw on my face worrying about him continually. It hurts me today knowing I put him thru that and I tried so hard to hide it from him. He took care of everything he could in his last days and for that I am grateful and glad that he went in peace, but it never takes away from the missing him every second of every day. Goodbye is something none of us is able to say. Maybe so long til we meet again.. Come back often Suzanne and know that hugs are with you continually....

Permalink Reply by Jerry on November 13, 2010 at 9:09pm

My wife was always telling me she was sorry for getting sick and for me having to care for her. It hurt me to see her get weaker and weaker as the days passed near the end. There were some bad moments as she was going through this, she didnt want to eat,and I wrongly believed that if she would eat she would get better. I had read in booklets from the hospice that this was a problem for many caregivers,trying to force a cancer patient to eat,when in reality it was the body knowing it was near the end and shutting down to actually conserve energy.I just couldn't accept this until the last few days when she couldnt even lift her hea any longer. Sorry for writting this,but this is always on my mind,even though it has been 10 months since she passed.

Barbara Roth said:

Hi John and Suzanne, my husband fought so hard to stay with us, but in the end, cancer won. I too know the despair of seeing your loved one going through so much. It got to the point where it hurt too much to even look at Jim.Yet he kept telling me " just another bump in the road ". I believe he is in heaven, that he is pain-free, and happy. I will always love him,miss him,and respect him. He fought so hard, kept apologizing for getting sick ( like it was his fault ). All this from a man who used to whine like a baby when he had a simple cold. We all had loving marriages,we were the lucky ones to have someone care so much about us. It's a shame that we didn't have more time. take care.

Permalink Reply by Ellen Brant on November 13, 2010 at 9:43pm

OK, maybe I have posted too much but I just was sitting in the clothing closet trying to to look at my things and all I came across were Doug. His spirit. His joy, the love that I REMEMBER like it was a moment ago. Notes that were saved, memory boxes we created of trips we travelled. NO, I didn't fold or sort a paper, I sat on the floor and cried my heart out and only wished for him to come home. I can't get a thing done today. Sorry for posting all my mind losing. Perhaps I need to hibernate under a blanket in the dark for a bit. God this is horrid. Thanks all for allowing me to still be here. HUGS. I miss Doug's HUGS too and to HUG him.

Permalink Reply by Kathy King Kates on November 13, 2010 at 9:49pm

Ellen, so sorry you are having an extra bad day. Its still pretty fresh and feel free to continue venting all you need to. Its okay. We understand. Remember, we really do know how it feels and wish we could help with your pain. I too miss my dear Bills wonderful hugs and kisses. What a man. Take care of yourself.

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